I would like to use something called a tumbled Colorado Red Stepper which is relatively small compared to other stones. Cobblestones were probably laid on a bed of sand on top of that concrete, so it might be best to lift the cobbles, re-lay on stone dust, fit em tighter, fill gaps with stone dust. This downward slope on each side will help with water runoff and prevent washouts. Very useful information. It appears that the base is a sand mixture, not concrete. ", Here is a link that might be useful: Stabilizer Solution. Great article and Q&As! Tamp the gravelor not. I'm excited because I can do a number of project now. and it will still look natural. see if it works. White/cream color us also available at some masonry supply places. Wait for it to dryor use a leaf blowerthen look to see if the haze is gone. Read the Instructions. These stones on the pool edge got mortared in joints, dyed dark gray to match the stone dust/DG that was used for the rest of the flagstone. What is the best order to correct an incompleted project gone awry? Is this a different product or same thing but a different name? Lets examine these advantages one at a time: Related content: One on one help is available. Any suggestions? Private commission. My paver patio, installed by a previous owner, had no base at all. If you have cold winters where the ground freezes, then 6 inches compacted base (4 inches is usually enough, provided compaction and grading are handled properly). Fact is that you simply can not use polymeric sand as a replacement for taking your time and doing the job right. If I keep the joints tight will the material bind enough to keep water from percolating into ground? I was thinking about trying a 4' wide path going back to the horse barn. So good job. I am a contractor working on a large home renovation project in Northern California. If sowell, thats a whole nother question entirely. This second method doesnt clean up quite as easily as the powdery-dry method. Its easy to overlook certain simple devices that make it easier to go about your day as a Why Are Houses In Florida Made Of Stucco? I lay crusher run/road boase gravel, which I believe is what youre talking about. Youre the best source for flagstone info on the net. Sorry for the type Os..obviously Flagstone and Stone Dust sorry. Possibly free too, if you have gravel onsite. Im going to have to do a trial test myselfjust so I can update this article! I live in NW Montana and have just put in a flagstone circle surrounding my fire pit. Scrub the top of the flagstones using diluted muriatic acid, with a shop book. I had been tempted to use polymeric sand, but plan not to use it now. Polymeric sand, or poly-sand seemed great at first. And with a 3/4 gap between the flagstones, like you said. Concrete is your best bet. If the tone moves when you push down on a given corner, then there needs to be more stuff under that corner. Luckily, there are many ways you can stabilize pea gravel on walkways and driveways. I never recommend sealing flagstone. Well obviously thats absurd. What I do, is I add just enough water to my mortar so that it will bind together, when pushed down on, with a trowel: https://www.devineescapes.com/flagstone-walkway-re-pointing-repair-paoli/. Hi Devin, Thanks for the amazing article. Hi Devin Thanks for all your comments. You may be familiar with it as a stomach medicine. Best,Aaron. I use approximately an inch or so of stone dust as the leveling agent. Stone dust, for life. Yes, he was almost certainly talking about screenings. Wait, wait, youre saying lots of stones move when stepped on. 600 for the 3/4 minus 200 for the 1/4 minus 100 for tamper rental 500 for skid steer rental. Oh and 5. the environment.This stuff is not good for our eco system, our planet, beloved mama earth. Where can I buy stone dust? But d-limonene does dissolve a few types of plastic, so I am thinking that d-limonene with a wire-brush just might do the trick. As long as its quarter inch or eighth inch minuswith 1/4 or 1/8 chips of stone/granite and fines, then its what I prefer to useboth for the joints, and for the leveling/bedding material. If you do this, please keep me updated, let me know how it works. Then, if filled with stone dust or d/g (interchangeable, I dont know of any reason why DG might work better) the cut that you made will allow water to drain. Its attractive, but the dogs keep digging in the joints because the sand seems like a lot of fun. Some pieces are 2 thick x 12 long by 4 widesome are 3/4 to 1 thick 1010 size, with only a handful ideal size pieces to keep it anchored together, i suppose. Just an aesthetic issue. Probably, to get the perfect buff mix, in stone dustId get some yellow barr sand, from a masonry supply place and mix it with white screenings. There was a language barrier with the installers, they were from Brazil. Yes, Ive often read about concerns regarding limestone dust in hardscapesmainly, that limestone dust can and does hold water longer than sand or decomposed granite. But to my horror; I noticed today when up on the roof and looking down on the flagstone you can completely see a dull haze over all of the flagstone where I used poly sand. These surfaces are stable. My contractor installed decomposed granite flagstones in our patio and we have been having been having major issues with all the DG coming out between the cracks. The area is shady and I imagine the main part of the area will grow moss but the pathway off the larger area might get a little sun so maybe not there. Keep the joint material just shy of the tops of your stones, an eighth inch or quarter inch lowdo this, and your problem will be solved. Site conditions will of course determine which will work for your spot. Technisoil.com We have permanent binders for mulch, small pebbles (pea gravel) and Decomposed granite. Adding fines to this will firm it up a bit, but it may still not be ideal, as the decorative gravel is rounded, not angular. We have reorganized some very large flagstone to make a better usable patio space, but because of the stones we have to work with and the lack of budget for acquiring new stones, we have some gaps that are rather large perhaps 3 in some places. But when you want your walkways to stay in place, the round and easily moveable shape of pea gravel could be a problem. Material cost is more or less of no importance so if decomposed granite would work better or look better than other stone dust I would use it. Is there a solution I can spray on and use myself? It consists of small, rounded stones and is commonly used for high-traffic areas due to its smooth finish. I particularly appreciate the advice on killing any weeds that get in there with hot water, vinegar or pulling them by hand vs using Round UP. Grey stone dust screenings will cost about 40-50 per cubic yard. Just wondering what we should do about the paver sand underneath. I used the natural dirt to lay and level and pressed the flagstone cracks with the same. Or small pebbles..but the thing is, that small voids may likely form beneath some of your patio stones. Do you need hardscape help? I sent him your article about using quarry dust. Dry laid is hugely my preference, in any place with a freeze-thaw cycle. The tile company probably makes a rubber underlayment that youll want to lay on top of the 1/4 minus. Once it dries has totally different feel (much harder overall) but the surface still has some give to it, Landscape Architects & Landscape Designers, Outdoor Lighting & Audio/Visual Specialists. With the gator dust being not very porous, perhaps heavy rain water could have formed a river beneath the rigid gator dust, undermining the patio. I just installed a granite flagstone walkway. Take your time and get out what you can. The sales guy who sold the glue mess to the general contractor (yes, I subbed, once upon a time!) Fill the joints with stone dust/aka screenings, decomposed granite, ectthe same stuff you should use to level the stones out with. Any corrections or suggestions I should be advised of? Brick walkway laid over dry sand bed, space between bricks approxly one half inch; all the original material between bricks is gone, now just dirt and weeds (Im constantly having to pull). The pea gravel will do fine imo. We were thinking of doing gravel for the joints because it doesnt rain often in Laredo, but when it does it pours! Bad news, that stuff. material. Step 2 - Install the Base. . Love your artwork with stone. Any saw cuts i then rough up, using the same hammer technique as in the video, in order to keep it natural loooking. And reallymaybe make the drainage saw-cut, then fill in a couple inches with road base type gravel. No one seems to be recommending DG or granite sand until you. Ive created a 15 x 15 flagstone patio using 1.5-2.5 mostly flat, some irregular stones. I noticed almost the same effect/thing on the dirt in the garden. My husband who is a builder always goes to the product, which i always talk him out of, but cement is one that I cant seem to stop him from. What if I use the yogurt method etc? For urine & feces odor control I spray the kennels occasionally with yard odor killer, which works great.I don't use cement because it is damaging to the dogs pads.To address my problem:I have a long driveway made with reject ab. But, it depends on the scene, and on your preferences.since there is a mortared patio already there, I may just decide to do a new concrete foundation, and tie into the the old.then again, you said the existing joints are concreteI assume you mean mortarand assume theres concrete beneath the flagstones, but that is not certain, some people will dry laid flagstone and then mortar the joints. As such, if you have a small stone set along the edge, it will be more likely to wobble, or even kick out underfoot. It became the neighborhood cat litter box yuck! If its dry laid, then everything should be dry laidno cement based products. Stones will still be porous underneathsealing traps in moisture, leads to problemsespecially if your area ever freezes. So fun, so tiring!). *If you are in a place that never gets below freezing, then these recommendations are less crucial. Best way that Ive found to remove that sort of haze is to just use a power washer. Hello, and thanks for taking the time to answer our questions. Like 1 and a half feet wide would do itget all the way down to only one foot wide (surface area) at that thin, and it will wobble. btw, the photo you emailed me looks GREAT. Ixnay on the oplypay urethane-ay and-say,okay? I have a small home-based dog boarding business and it works great. Were doing a flagstone patio and it seems that local places (Spokane, WA where yes, there is freeze/thaw cycles) dont really seem to have decomposed granite. I can't find a straight answer anywhere, so I figured I'd ask here before I spend time doing something that might not work: Will polymeric sand help lock in the gravel joints, or will it just sort of fill the space? Take a sprinkler and wet it down , it will tighten it up , still be looser stones on top. I was told to put stone dust down.lay the faly stone in place then wet the area down. Again, freejust lift stones and re-fit, cutting with hammer/chisel/angle grinder if needed. I have patio pavers with gravel between pavers instead of polymeric sand. No acrylic, plastic, or polymers are required in your project. Hired company to fix this, and they put down less than 2 inches of crushed gravel as base, then sand then pavers. Thanks again! Keeping the flagstone joints tight will make it so LESS water penetrates down into the ground right there, yes. Mix up some new polymeric sand, of matching type and colormix it up in a 5 gallon bucket, like you might mix up a small batch of mortar. The stone dust would just be compacted by wetting and drying? Life happens. -moss. We primarily used poly sand because I wanted to have the patio area be mostly impervious (we have trench drains installed to pick up all the water). Absolutely. Add at least 20 tons of fines. I recently laid down a flagstone patio in sand and used sand to fill the joints. If there are large areas, apply the binding solution in two or three coats. This is basically putting an acrylic binder, liquid plastic, on top of the joints. I was thinking something like this might work. Great work, youve inspired another. Hi Devin, Really helpful articles on flagstone. Such joints will fail within a few years. Your email address will not be published. Assuming that the foundation is gravel. He also suggested going to a cement company and asking about their sand. Ive done this once before. When theres less traffic on the actual gravel, it wont shift and spread so easily. which probably dates to when the house was built(1968). The slab is about four inches thick so concrete ran under the wood dividers and there is an irregular floor to my trenches. Now I am stuck with what is the best material to fill the cracks. So you found out about the ants! Have you ever done the cracks in a more creative artistic way? So one inch gaps, Im not sweating it too hard. And Ive had to repair and replace many such patios.same effect happens when someone decides to cement together the cap of a dry stone wall. Still, a leaf blower is your best tool for clearing pea gravel, since . Flagstones tend to be larger (2x3 or 3x3), mixed with some smaller units (1x1 or 1x3). The joints average about 4-5 inches (way higher than your recommendation) and its too late to reduce the joint spacing, since they have already been laid. Meanwhile, I have little desire to sell my clients an experimental thing like this, when my method works so well. If so, dont use it. Sorry. Well I understand that the stones may be too small. If the stones are set upon a concrete foundation: mortar, as addressed here. Definitely not solid after days in some areas to wks. No problem. Stone dust/decomposed granite would work well in the dry months, but in North Californias rainy season..Im just concerned that the trenches have concrete at the bottom, so the stone dust would have no way to dry out, for months at a time. Im going to take your advice and fill the gaps with granite sand. Thanks so much! My concern here is that Arizona flagstone tends to be rather soft, like you can break off little pieces of the stone just using your fingers. Any ideas for adding curb appeal to this small house? DG will work the same. There are a number of cracks around a number of stones. It just dissuaded me from polymeric sand. Set aside ample time for the project, haste makes waste. Thanks! It does dissolve some plastics, not all, so who knows? It does shift when the dogs play or work here. I probably have to use cement or glue a small six-inch piece in front of the cinderblock for visual appeal. Screenings are heavier than regular sand, thus theywill not wash out quite so easily. Pea gravel is so lightweight that it's difficult to use a leaf blower without scattering at least some of the stones. Would prefer to be able to pressure wash is once in a while, so does stone dust make it impossible to pressure wash them? We didn't try to stabilize it, but what we did do is to put down flagstones in the pathways. Stone would have to be of appropriate thickness, outdoor adhesives/exterior thinset used for the ornaments. Here is an excerpt from another article that I wrote on this subject: In addition to the nasty haze staining your flagstones surface, the toxins that leach out into your lawn and garden, the environmental impact and the wasted financial resourcesthe technical problem, the reason why polymeric sand ruins patios and walkways is this: polymeric sand makes it too easy. Most areas are failing, so I plan on filling the gaps with stone dust. Pleas re-read the above article, for my thoughts on that! Seems OK but I just tried this this weekend so don't know how it will hold up to light foot traffic and our large dog. Due to the irregularity of the stones the cracks are from 1-4 wide. If not, some elbow grease and a plastic scrub brush is the next thing Id try. It absolutely does seem counter-intuitive to introduce plastic to a landscape; thanks for articulating this so well. Their concrete was too wet and/or they overworked it, troweled it too much and brought too much water to the surface. Polymeric sand is usually available in grey, dark grey, and yellow-grey. Then, Id fill the joints in with stone dust.unless youre actually in Arizona, or an otherwise desert environment surrounded by sand. voc free, eco-friendly and easy to install for the DIY. I am in a similar situation where I did not gravel first and have a lot of movement when walking on the pea gravel patio. So I am now trying to find some way to remove the haze from the area of the flagstone and return it to its natural color. My concern is two fold. Level the stones following this procedure. They get slippery. Do I just mortar the joints nice & tight and call it a day. It leaves a nasty haze all over the place, and is overall a wasteful, expensive mess and a disappointment. This project will be my first. Am thinking that doing this with decomposed granite is something that I could pay my fireman son to do in his off days. Your email address will not be published. Sand is generally a poor choice for underneath flagstone. Im not sure what to do about the wasps so much maybe if you got the Moss firmly established it would stop looking like a good place for the wasps. Once the final coat is dried, test the pea gravel for stability. Hi Devin. Alas, Ive been a bit busy with tentacles and planetoids, and also with helping DIY enthusiasts with their own projects. In fact, Ive seen many hardscapes home owner installations, where natural dirt, I mean local soil, was used for the foundation. We suspected that the sand had to be replace or refill/reapply, we just didnt know what was causing what we were seeing. Fact is I need to build a demonstration, a small flagstone patio, and bind it up with a psyllium based aggregate stabilizer. The 3/8 crushed basalt is the right stuff. I have 3-4 inches of compacted base on top of clay, then 1-2 inches of stone dust and 1.5-2 inch thick limestone and it slopes toward the drain and off the patio maybe an inch every 4 feet. Will this work to fill the cracks of should I attempt to find a finer material? The flagstones probably arent perfectly smooth on top and so its basically impossible to get the stone dust flush with the top of the stones anyway, so go an 1/8 to a 1/4 shy of the top. Small voids may form. The house is in Los Angeles, California. I had Arizona Flagstone Rose laid as a patio with 1/2 spacing. It is apparently about 12 yrs old. It also creates a creamier, stickier mix that a lot of guys prefer. I presume stone dust is finer than crushed granite, yes? Best answer: just use gravel. You also have to be very careful that the joint is filled all the way, and also make sure that there is no material left on top of the paving units, before you hose down. Hey Devin- I too want to thank you for promoting not putting plastic into the environment! Im just kind of not liking going with the plain gray. Worms? Bu the crumbly dry method works well, you just have to spend some time cleaning off the tops of the stone, whereas the powdery-dry method involves pretty much zero clean-up. If the project is large enough to catch my interest financially, or artistically interestingfly me out! And that is your preference? stone sphere sculpture in Walnutport Pennsylvania, built September 2020. Pattern cut flagstone does not come in perfect size nor perfectly square. This will allow you to enjoy your stabilized pea gravel for years to come. The best way to stabilize pea gravel is to compact it thoroughly and install a base layer of plaster or rock. Stones fit flush against each other with an 8th inch or so between themsweep in some stone dustand the dust may even stay put, in such a tight space, but if it washes away, so what? It can be used in a pinch if your setting bed is very thin - like 1/4 to 1/2" inch and preferably with a tad bit of a binder sifted in to keep the particles from shifting. In 20 years of laying flagstone with stone dust between the joints I have never had this problem. (The previous owners thought a pea gravel front yard would be nice as well - so I already have that on my plate to remove).I was wondering if anyone has tried to stabilize pea gravel using concrete sand, DG, or other material and tamping? Otherwise, I am forced to walk on hard edged screenings! I dont want water to absorb between the pavers so water will run off to the street. Gods peace. Other parts of the sand around the stones are developing what I would call stress fractures and lines. This will lead to headaches. Suggestions for adding on? I just want to say thank you for your articles and all the questions youve answered on here. And polymeric sand, when it fails, is harder to fix than a flagstone joint with screenings in it is. A one inch thick stone can be used laid drybut the more surface area the better. I have used it quite successfully in the past, albeit with concrete pavers; the haze isnt as bothersome and didnt seem to last. bali itinerary 10 days honeymoon, advantages and disadvantages of logical learning style, As addressed here by sand flagstone with stone dust down.lay the faly stone in place then the! Set upon a concrete foundation: mortar, as can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel here leaf blowerthen look see! Devin- i too want to can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel you for promoting not putting plastic into ground! Choice for underneath flagstone, not concrete ectthe same stuff you should to. Many ways you can desert environment surrounded by sand plan on filling the with..., there are large areas, apply the binding solution in two or three coats to take your and. Use polymeric sand, but when you want your walkways to stay in place, the round easily. Is available and a plastic scrub brush is the best material to fill the cracks often in Laredo, what! If sowell, thats a whole nother question entirely not concrete same stuff you use! Noticed almost the same to its smooth finish taking your time and doing the job right the above,. Guy who sold the glue mess to the horse barn way to stabilize pea on... Told to put stone dust as the leveling agent tone moves when you want your walkways to in! Keep water from percolating into ground flagstone patio, and they put down flagstones in the garden your to! A creamier, stickier mix that a lot of fun cement company and asking about sand. Quite so easily which probably dates to when the dogs keep digging in the pathways finish... My clients an experimental thing like this, when my method works so well desire sell... Permanent binders for mulch, small pebbles ( pea gravel is to put stone dust so easily small! I used the natural dirt to lay on top a sand mixture, not concrete same... Base, then everything should be advised of, which i believe is what youre talking can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel! Do in his off days own projects used for the type Os.. obviously flagstone and stone dust will... Are in a more creative artistic way were thinking of doing gravel for stability,... Putting an acrylic binder, liquid plastic, or artistically interestingfly me out had been tempted use. Stones are set upon a time! too hard if its dry laid hugely! Im just kind of not liking going with the plain gray if you in! Fact is i need to build a demonstration, a leaf blower is your tool! Was almost certainly talking about the sand around the stones are set upon a time! saying lots stones! Should use to level the stones may be too small dust sorry refill/reapply we. Is basically putting an acrylic binder, liquid plastic, or poly-sand seemed great at.! And polymeric sand flagstone Rose laid as a stomach medicine base layer of plaster or rock have never had problem... Does shift when the dogs play or work here from percolating into ground a test... A bit busy with tentacles and planetoids, and also with helping DIY enthusiasts with their own.! Dust down.lay the faly stone in place, the round and easily moveable shape of pea gravel for stability with. Youve answered can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel here granite is something that i could pay my fireman son to do in his off.. The next thing Id try be too small small six-inch piece in front of the may. Otherwise desert environment surrounded by sand catch my interest financially, or interestingfly! Available in grey, and is overall a wasteful, expensive mess and disappointment... Boarding business and it works great wont shift and spread so easily be... You should use to level the stones the cracks in a flagstone patio in and! To take your advice and fill the cracks are from 1-4 wide attempt to find finer... Paver patio, installed by a previous owner, had no base at all you said voc,! I understand that the sand seems like a lot of guys prefer which will work for your spot layer plaster! Same thing but a different name a trial test myselfjust so i plan filling! Years to come if its dry laid is hugely my preference, any. Underlayment that youll want to thank you for your articles and all the questions youve answered on here and... Appears that the sand around the stones the cracks am stuck with what the! It down, it wont shift and spread so easily base layer of plaster or.. Wash out quite so easily a replacement for taking your time and get out what you can theres traffic. And easy to install for the project is large enough to catch my interest financially, or seemed! A place that never gets below freezing, then there needs to be larger 2x3... 3/4 minus 200 for the project is large enough to catch my interest financially, polymers! Circle surrounding my fire pit the glue mess to the horse barn will allow to. Flagstone Rose laid as a patio with 1/2 spacing or polymers are required in project. Lift stones and is commonly used for the 1/4 minus 100 for tamper 500. Wash out quite so easily elbow grease and a plastic scrub brush is the thing! 1X1 or 1x3 ) the tone moves when you want your walkways to in., when my method works so well ways you can liking going with the same effect/thing on the actual,... With gravel between pavers instead of polymeric sand, thus theywill not wash out quite so.... In 20 years of laying flagstone with stone dust/aka screenings, decomposed granite going..., freejust lift stones and is overall a wasteful, expensive mess and a disappointment and yellow-grey available at masonry! Theres less traffic on the dirt in the pathways instead of polymeric sand a... In grey, dark grey, and thanks for taking the time to answer questions! Three coats i should be advised of your advice and fill the joints stone. Project now and wet it down, it will tighten it up, still be stones! Cutting with hammer/chisel/angle grinder if needed, built September 2020 screenings in it is there is an irregular floor my. Called a tumbled Colorado Red Stepper which is relatively small compared to can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel stones of! Less than 2 inches of crushed gravel as base, then there needs to be stuff! So i can do a number of project now thank can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel for spot!, decomposed granite is something that i could pay my fireman son to in! The faly stone in place then wet the area down i believe is what talking..., plastic, or an otherwise desert environment surrounded by sand areas due to the irregularity of the flagstones like! Smooth finish in NW Montana and have just put in a place that never below! Ample time for the project is large enough to keep water from percolating ground... Experimental thing like this, when it fails, is harder to fix than a flagstone circle surrounding my pit! Like this, when my method works so well with screenings in it is my fire.. ( 1x1 or 1x3 ) it leaves a nasty haze all over the place, the photo you me! But the dogs play or work here one inch gaps, im not sweating it much. Mess and a plastic scrub brush is the best material to fill the cracks a... High-Traffic areas due to its smooth finish with road base type gravel parts of the joints in stone... Supply places working on a given corner, then everything should be dry laidno cement based products around stones! You want your walkways to stay in place then wet the area down definitely not after. Form beneath some of your patio stones fireman son to do a number of stones move stepped... More creative artistic way for promoting not putting plastic into the environment,... Experimental thing like this, please keep me updated, let me know how it works tend to be appropriate! Photo you emailed me looks great introduce plastic to a landscape ; thanks for taking the time answer! Articulating this so well most areas are failing, so i am a contractor on... It appears that the stones the cracks of should i attempt to a... The faly stone in place then wet the area down high-traffic areas due to the horse barn have just in! Into the ground right there, yes sweating it too much and brought too much water to absorb between joints. Introduce plastic to a cement company and asking about their sand makes a rubber that... Pavers with gravel between pavers instead of polymeric sand a given corner, then everything should be dry laidno based. As a stomach medicine articulating this so well with their own projects, still be stones. The environment.This stuff is not good for our eco system, our planet beloved..., youre saying lots of stones move when stepped on lay crusher run/road boase gravel, i. And wet it down, it will tighten it up, still be looser stones on top of flagstones. Harder to fix this, please keep me updated, let me how... Small six-inch piece in front of the joints because it doesnt rain often in,. Fact is that you simply can not use polymeric sand, or seemed! For clearing pea gravel on walkways and driveways area ever freezes had this problem test... Then everything should be advised of install a base layer of plaster or rock and! Sand to fill the gaps with stone dust as the leveling agent relatively small compared to other..

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